I reread Persuasion recently and have been waiting anxiously for this post!). It is probably my favorite Austen novel (and Wentworth is my favorite Austen hero). I was flipping through Marilyn Butler's commentary and was surprised to see a slight criticism of Wentworth's impulsivity—she calls him a "well-intentioned but ideologically mistaken hero." Curious to know if this factors in/which metric this would affect!
Fascinating—I have Jane Austen and the War of Ideas on my nightstand but haven’t read it yet, is that where you saw this? I want to understand full context. In the meantime, perhaps @Henry Oliver has thoughts?
Yes! Page 275. I don't own it yet—it is on the to-buy list. But I've managed to "rent" it online and am slowly scrolling my way through it! Butler doesn't seem to see it as a huge character flaw, but the novel does hinge on him realizing his mistake.
Ok—with the caveat I’ve only read the two pages, I think I would basically tie Wentworth’s morals to his intentions over ideology—of which he furthermore has the good sense to later question and repent. With the exception of Eleanor Tilney’s viscount, we are all error-prone mortals, and I count the ability to admit fault higher than I penalize him for having them.
For me this book is the most perfectly packaged of them all. Though the opening chapter has changed dramatically for me since I aged past Sir Walter himself! 😳
Totally—a podcast host once asked me whether I’d prefer all art to be replaced with mirrors or all mirrors with art and I was a little offended it could be considered a question!
fascinated by wentworth’s morality score in light of his (understandable, maybe harmless, but kind of embarrassing) behavior with louisa! this almost makes me wonder if in the case of persuasion wentworth functions more like a typical heroine and anne the hero in terms of how we might best assess them? since it’s wentworth whose judgment most undergoes a transformation (anne never really seems in danger of mr elliot)…. otherwise, i read audition last night and that line struck me too, though i feel rather ambivalent about the novel as a whole
Yeah so I see his attentions towards Louisa as the result of subconscious self-deception rather than conscious encouragement. He’s later mortified to learn the extent of general expectations—and, while he stays in Lyme so long as is necessary and proper given the situation, he stays no longer. Misunderstandings are not moral failings—and as I replied in another comment, owning up to mistakes > never making them, morally.
my favorite austen!
You’re in good company!
Well well. Lots of highly fuckable men in Persuasion!
I reread Persuasion recently and have been waiting anxiously for this post!). It is probably my favorite Austen novel (and Wentworth is my favorite Austen hero). I was flipping through Marilyn Butler's commentary and was surprised to see a slight criticism of Wentworth's impulsivity—she calls him a "well-intentioned but ideologically mistaken hero." Curious to know if this factors in/which metric this would affect!
Fascinating—I have Jane Austen and the War of Ideas on my nightstand but haven’t read it yet, is that where you saw this? I want to understand full context. In the meantime, perhaps @Henry Oliver has thoughts?
Yes! Page 275. I don't own it yet—it is on the to-buy list. But I've managed to "rent" it online and am slowly scrolling my way through it! Butler doesn't seem to see it as a huge character flaw, but the novel does hinge on him realizing his mistake.
Ok—with the caveat I’ve only read the two pages, I think I would basically tie Wentworth’s morals to his intentions over ideology—of which he furthermore has the good sense to later question and repent. With the exception of Eleanor Tilney’s viscount, we are all error-prone mortals, and I count the ability to admit fault higher than I penalize him for having them.
For me this book is the most perfectly packaged of them all. Though the opening chapter has changed dramatically for me since I aged past Sir Walter himself! 😳
My favorite bit about Sir Walter comes later when Admiral Croft has to rid his rooms of too many mirrors
I’m 100% with the Admiral on the mirror question.
Totally—a podcast host once asked me whether I’d prefer all art to be replaced with mirrors or all mirrors with art and I was a little offended it could be considered a question!
I'm glad you reprinted the letter in full because it's the far superior romantic soliloquy to "i love you, most ardently"
for sure!
fascinated by wentworth’s morality score in light of his (understandable, maybe harmless, but kind of embarrassing) behavior with louisa! this almost makes me wonder if in the case of persuasion wentworth functions more like a typical heroine and anne the hero in terms of how we might best assess them? since it’s wentworth whose judgment most undergoes a transformation (anne never really seems in danger of mr elliot)…. otherwise, i read audition last night and that line struck me too, though i feel rather ambivalent about the novel as a whole
Yeah so I see his attentions towards Louisa as the result of subconscious self-deception rather than conscious encouragement. He’s later mortified to learn the extent of general expectations—and, while he stays in Lyme so long as is necessary and proper given the situation, he stays no longer. Misunderstandings are not moral failings—and as I replied in another comment, owning up to mistakes > never making them, morally.