I absolutely loved Saltburn. Just thought it was perfect. It really IS a great example of your choice/non-choice thing. Everybody had a choice, even those--like the parents--who were doomed into doltishness by choices made long ago, like Elspeth's (hilarious) revulsion to "ugliness." Elspeth was comfortable with her metaphysical identity as "One Who Is Repulsed by Ugliness", which seems to include "wetness", which is lol and particularly so because she'll end up a name on a rock in the water. Which is not to say I wished for anyone's downfall. I kinda-sorta liked them all, not cause they were rich, just cause I like my delusions, too. Just loved it. (Triangle of Sadness was so unfunny and didactic that it robbed me of any thoughts so I don't have any.)
I love both films but Saltburn definitely went into my favourite films of all time. I loved so much of it - especially how erotic it strained to be... the eroticism manifests itself in a kind of elite fantasy. Feelings of joy and sexual freedom only achieved with great wealth. Triangle of Sadness was less a movie per say and more of a treatise on power made into a very obvious, very literal film. I felt the film makers had to hit people over the head to get them to understand how much wealth can create illusions of power. But yes, Saltburn was better.
I didn’t love Saltburn (I thought it neared the horizon of class commentary but didn’t quite cross it in any meaningful way, perhaps because I couldn’t get Talented Mr. Ripley, which does this plot so well, out of my head) but I really enjoyed your perspective and it made me examine my thoughts/distaste more deeply. Thank you!
Just watched Saltburn and enjoyed it. Oliver's lie reminded me of upper-middle-class self-loathing, where they wish they were either living large as aristocrats or struggling nobly as proletariats. As the UMC, they're in the worst of both worlds, where they don't have genuine wealth, but they also don't have some heroic underdog narrative.
Have you ever read Loner by Teddy Wayne? There's a great part the protagonist, David Federman, resents being from well-to-do surburban New Jersey, which lacks both the elite sophistication of New York City and the admirable grittiness of Springsteen's NJ. Oliver reminded me of David, another psychotic social climber.
I didn't watch any of these; now I am going to, I guess, when I have a chance, at least "Saltburn" which might be on one of the streaming services I do have?
Speaking strictly in comparison with the Matt Damon Ripley, I feel like Saltburn lacks a certain plausibility of character. When Freddie Miles finds Ripley again in Rome, he says something like “the only thing that looks like Dickie here...is you.” What Miles and Ripley both understand is that Dickie was a rich midwit, and what Ripley believes at his core is that he’s entitled to Dickie’s wealth because he can live that life better, more aesthetically, more intellectually (and I think the disconcerting brilliance of the story is that we agree with him). We’re prepped for something similar in Saltburn (Oliver’s done the whole summer reading list!) but aside from his identifying the obscure ceramics, as the film wears on we lose any sense that Oliver is some kind of natural aristocrat. His grand victory is walking around the estate naked? (Also the murder scene in Ripley is frighteningly realistic and genuinely shocking.) I did vibe on the mid-2000s setting, though. Maybe our world can’t create Ripleys anymore?
Saltburn was flawed but fun. It elevated above merely fun with some of the dialogue, which stunned at points. I wished for a less plotted, “talky” film.
Great takes on these two films. I liked the Sadness film when it went out on ship and beyond. Watched Saltburn this week and I was really entertained. The blend of dark, nasty malevolence and the caricatured humour (upper class are twits - that sort of thing) and the way these two aspects were intertwined seemed really fresh. My favourite bit was the Pulp 'Common People' joke (I'm easily pleased). I watched Promising Young Woman but don't remember it. Might rewatch because I obviously didn't get it.
I watched triangle, ironically just a few weeks before my own 2-week European cruises, not knowing in advance of course about triangle’s plot. The restaurant and hotel scenes, although I am very familiar with slow paced movies and this sort of stuck-forever scene, just felt way too much art for art’s sake and almost made us abandon the movie halfway. Imagine my delight when it transitioned to the cruise - great I thought , here comes a well cinematographed (not a word) movie that will put us in the cruisin’ mood. I don’t think the movie deserved watching until the end. Many times I felt like scenes dragged on and escalated needlessly just to prove that they could, and I couldn’t shake the “this has been done before and much more artfully” feeling. As for cringe-induction, if you like that sort of thing, The Hostel did that much more effectively, and somehow that gore felt justified vs what triangle had to offer. I am also reminded inexplicably of fellini’s satyricon.
In the end I just felt like rewatching my favorite jim jarmusch movies was needed to cleanse my palate.
Triangle of Sadness was one of those movies where I was like "what on earth am I watching?" and I so rarely have that reaction that it edges me towards positivity. Like I don't think the plot, characters, or thematic content were hitting on all levels, but I get excited about people taking wild swings. [hated saltburn]
I was definitely entertained by Saltburn, but more than I think it deserved.
I was annoyed by the on the nose/ punch in the nose Brideshead references.
I thought it was a messy movie where I didn't really believe the characters. I contrast that with the believability of the Talented Mr. Ripley, and I think it's a steep fall in quality and art between the two. Perhaps that's an unfair comparison.
I have not seen Triangle.
Last movie I watched and liked very much was Anatomy of a Fall.
I absolutely loved Saltburn. Just thought it was perfect. It really IS a great example of your choice/non-choice thing. Everybody had a choice, even those--like the parents--who were doomed into doltishness by choices made long ago, like Elspeth's (hilarious) revulsion to "ugliness." Elspeth was comfortable with her metaphysical identity as "One Who Is Repulsed by Ugliness", which seems to include "wetness", which is lol and particularly so because she'll end up a name on a rock in the water. Which is not to say I wished for anyone's downfall. I kinda-sorta liked them all, not cause they were rich, just cause I like my delusions, too. Just loved it. (Triangle of Sadness was so unfunny and didactic that it robbed me of any thoughts so I don't have any.)
I love both films but Saltburn definitely went into my favourite films of all time. I loved so much of it - especially how erotic it strained to be... the eroticism manifests itself in a kind of elite fantasy. Feelings of joy and sexual freedom only achieved with great wealth. Triangle of Sadness was less a movie per say and more of a treatise on power made into a very obvious, very literal film. I felt the film makers had to hit people over the head to get them to understand how much wealth can create illusions of power. But yes, Saltburn was better.
I didn’t love Saltburn (I thought it neared the horizon of class commentary but didn’t quite cross it in any meaningful way, perhaps because I couldn’t get Talented Mr. Ripley, which does this plot so well, out of my head) but I really enjoyed your perspective and it made me examine my thoughts/distaste more deeply. Thank you!
Just watched Saltburn and enjoyed it. Oliver's lie reminded me of upper-middle-class self-loathing, where they wish they were either living large as aristocrats or struggling nobly as proletariats. As the UMC, they're in the worst of both worlds, where they don't have genuine wealth, but they also don't have some heroic underdog narrative.
Have you ever read Loner by Teddy Wayne? There's a great part the protagonist, David Federman, resents being from well-to-do surburban New Jersey, which lacks both the elite sophistication of New York City and the admirable grittiness of Springsteen's NJ. Oliver reminded me of David, another psychotic social climber.
I didn't watch any of these; now I am going to, I guess, when I have a chance, at least "Saltburn" which might be on one of the streaming services I do have?
Thank you for the delicious review, Natasha.
Speaking strictly in comparison with the Matt Damon Ripley, I feel like Saltburn lacks a certain plausibility of character. When Freddie Miles finds Ripley again in Rome, he says something like “the only thing that looks like Dickie here...is you.” What Miles and Ripley both understand is that Dickie was a rich midwit, and what Ripley believes at his core is that he’s entitled to Dickie’s wealth because he can live that life better, more aesthetically, more intellectually (and I think the disconcerting brilliance of the story is that we agree with him). We’re prepped for something similar in Saltburn (Oliver’s done the whole summer reading list!) but aside from his identifying the obscure ceramics, as the film wears on we lose any sense that Oliver is some kind of natural aristocrat. His grand victory is walking around the estate naked? (Also the murder scene in Ripley is frighteningly realistic and genuinely shocking.) I did vibe on the mid-2000s setting, though. Maybe our world can’t create Ripleys anymore?
Saltburn was flawed but fun. It elevated above merely fun with some of the dialogue, which stunned at points. I wished for a less plotted, “talky” film.
Great takes on these two films. I liked the Sadness film when it went out on ship and beyond. Watched Saltburn this week and I was really entertained. The blend of dark, nasty malevolence and the caricatured humour (upper class are twits - that sort of thing) and the way these two aspects were intertwined seemed really fresh. My favourite bit was the Pulp 'Common People' joke (I'm easily pleased). I watched Promising Young Woman but don't remember it. Might rewatch because I obviously didn't get it.
I watched triangle, ironically just a few weeks before my own 2-week European cruises, not knowing in advance of course about triangle’s plot. The restaurant and hotel scenes, although I am very familiar with slow paced movies and this sort of stuck-forever scene, just felt way too much art for art’s sake and almost made us abandon the movie halfway. Imagine my delight when it transitioned to the cruise - great I thought , here comes a well cinematographed (not a word) movie that will put us in the cruisin’ mood. I don’t think the movie deserved watching until the end. Many times I felt like scenes dragged on and escalated needlessly just to prove that they could, and I couldn’t shake the “this has been done before and much more artfully” feeling. As for cringe-induction, if you like that sort of thing, The Hostel did that much more effectively, and somehow that gore felt justified vs what triangle had to offer. I am also reminded inexplicably of fellini’s satyricon.
In the end I just felt like rewatching my favorite jim jarmusch movies was needed to cleanse my palate.
Triangle of Sadness was one of those movies where I was like "what on earth am I watching?" and I so rarely have that reaction that it edges me towards positivity. Like I don't think the plot, characters, or thematic content were hitting on all levels, but I get excited about people taking wild swings. [hated saltburn]
I was definitely entertained by Saltburn, but more than I think it deserved.
I was annoyed by the on the nose/ punch in the nose Brideshead references.
I thought it was a messy movie where I didn't really believe the characters. I contrast that with the believability of the Talented Mr. Ripley, and I think it's a steep fall in quality and art between the two. Perhaps that's an unfair comparison.
I have not seen Triangle.
Last movie I watched and liked very much was Anatomy of a Fall.
Lina Wertmuller’s “Swept Away” 1974
The rest of them are pale imitations, especially Guy Ritchie’s version. (The Madonna vanity vehicle)
Triangle of Sadness... Monty Python did that vomiting scene so much better, and with humour.